Pocus vs. Android arc Super Saiyans

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Pocus vs. Android arc Super Saiyans
Tweet Topic Started: Mar 15 2015, 02:53 AM (1,313 Views)
+ Six Trails	Mar 15 2015, 02:53 AM Post #1
Posts: 1,570 Group: Elite Member Member #11,764 Joined: October 23, 2014 Gender Not Specified Country United States	Scenario 1: SSJ Goku (healthy), SSJ Vegeta, SSJ Trunks Scenario 2: same as 1, but add pre-kami Piccolo



FutureProtagonist	Mar 15 2015, 03:03 AM Post #2
Quwrof Wrlccywrlir Posts: 2,545 Group: Member Member #11,890 Joined: December 5, 2014 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime FMA: Brotherhood What Browser do you use? Waterfox Favourite Manga Soul Eater	Pocus will simply be violated. I see him maybe being as strong as one of them individually, but I don't make him android level because I can't see him giving base Gohan any trouble.
	I love building PCs. If you have any questions about it feel free to ask. I can help you with almost any kind of PC you'd want to build. Join DBZeta


* Ketchup Revenge	Mar 15 2015, 05:56 AM Post #3
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!" Posts: 6,083 Group: Retired Forum Moderator Member #9,012 Joined: February 9, 2013 Gender Not Specified Country Chile Favourite Anime FMA: Brotherhood, Dragon Ball, Samurai Champloo, Soul Eater, Assassination Classroom What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Fullmetal Alchemist, Assassination Classroom, Deadman Wonderland	The Pocus "can of worms" debate has been opened again. I personally don't see him being higher than second form Freeza. Android Arc SSjs are just overkill.
	The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him.


FutureProtagonist	Mar 15 2015, 06:04 AM Post #4
Quwrof Wrlccywrlir Posts: 2,545 Group: Member Member #11,890 Joined: December 5, 2014 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime FMA: Brotherhood What Browser do you use? Waterfox Favourite Manga Soul Eater	Ketchup Revenge Mar 15 2015, 05:56 AM The Pocus "can of worms" debate has been opened again. I personally don't see him being higher than second form Freeza. Android Arc SSjs are just overkill. Why is Kaioshin concerned about him, then? Why does Dabra believe he can defeat Kaioshin (and three others)? Why is Kaioshin impressed with Vegeta's ability to blow him into the next world? If Pui-Pui were that much of Puss-Puss, his movements would have made it clear that he's a joke, yet Kaioshin was still wringing his hands over fighting him.
	I love building PCs. If you have any questions about it feel free to ask. I can help you with almost any kind of PC you'd want to build. Join DBZeta


* Ketchup Revenge	Mar 15 2015, 06:35 AM Post #5
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!" Posts: 6,083 Group: Retired Forum Moderator Member #9,012 Joined: February 9, 2013 Gender Not Specified Country Chile Favourite Anime FMA: Brotherhood, Dragon Ball, Samurai Champloo, Soul Eater, Assassination Classroom What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Fullmetal Alchemist, Assassination Classroom, Deadman Wonderland	FutureProtagonist Mar 15 2015, 06:04 AM Ketchup Revenge Mar 15 2015, 05:56 AM The Pocus "can of worms" debate has been opened again. I personally don't see him being higher than second form Freeza. Android Arc SSjs are just overkill. Why is Kaioshin concerned about him, then? Why does Dabra believe he can defeat Kaioshin (and three others)? Why is Kaioshin impressed with Vegeta's ability to blow him into the next world? If Pui-Pui were that much of Puss-Puss, his movements would have made it clear that he's a joke, yet Kaioshin was still wringing his hands over fighting him. What evidence do we have that Kaioshin is really that strong? None. The only thing that we see that he can do is disburse a blast that SSj Gohan took head on, who was stated to be weaker than his Cell Games self. Almost any attack will do damage if you don't block it, regardless of your gap over the weaker fighter. This discussion happened on another thread recently. Kaioshin's strength seems to come from his unusual abilities as a Kaioshin, not his strength as a fighter. Not to mention that we've seen that he's trash at judging people's true power. He wasn't even aware of the power of the Super Saiyans or even the existence of Cell at all. With him crapping his pants over Dabra's power, you'd think he'd notice someone else who was just as strong as he was. People will argue about Pocus being possessed instead of Freeza, but people seem to forget that Freeza's public image was his first form (weakest state), not his fourth form. Bobbidi wouldn't have known that Freeza was intentionally making himself weaker, therefore all Pocus needs to be is stronger than first form Freeza to get chosen over him. Other arguments of course include the fact that Pocus's race is not noted in any way. The Saiyans were noted for their unusual abilities to gain power, and they lived on a planet that was almost identical to Planet Voon; and the overwhelming majority of them were weaker than Kiwi. The only way that Pocus's power being phenomenal would make any sense would be if he's like "The Broly" of the race, and he's not evidenced to be.
	The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him.


FutureProtagonist	Mar 15 2015, 07:31 AM Post #6
Quwrof Wrlccywrlir Posts: 2,545 Group: Member Member #11,890 Joined: December 5, 2014 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime FMA: Brotherhood What Browser do you use? Waterfox Favourite Manga Soul Eater	It's not from his unusual abilities as a Kaioshin. He can defeat someone of Freeza's level in a single blow. The only unusual abilities he has are a particularly powerful binding magic and the ability to summon objects. Even if it wasn't, he's still above Freeza. It doesn't matter whether it's by magic that he never demonstrates, or by simple ki strength; the fact is, he can effortlessly defeat Freeza. That can't be contested. You can talk about his race/reputation all day, but the fact is that Dabra is confident in sending him to defeat the Kaioshin and Kaioshin's reaction to Vegeta defeating him should be what we measure his power by. You already pointed out that Kaioshin doesn't know much about the universe, so his lack of knowledge about Pui-Pui shouldn't be a problem. Edited by FutureProtagonist, Mar 15 2015, 07:36 AM.
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DBZAOTA482	Mar 15 2015, 07:33 AM Post #7
Posts: 1,798 Group: Member Member #5,093 Joined: August 2, 2010 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon Ball/Z, One Piece, Akira, School Rumble, Detective Conan. What Browser do you use? Google Chrome, Internet Explorer.	The Saiyans use him as a rug.



+ Majin Vegeta	Mar 15 2015, 08:24 AM Post #8
The resident GT fan! Posts: 8,522 Group: Elite Member Member #9,206 Joined: March 17, 2013 Gender Male Country Greece Favourite Anime DragonBall/Z/GT, Code Geass,Attack on Titan, Death Note, Naruto What Browser do you use? Safari Favourite Manga DragonBall/Z, Naruto, Death Note, Yugioh!	I have Pui Pui as strong as SSJ Trunks Android Arc, there's no way the guy could handle 3 of them, not to mention both Goku and Vegeta would beat him up alone.
	"Its only when we're pushed to our limits that we can truly shine!" Majin Vegeta


+ Ginyu	Mar 15 2015, 08:35 AM Post #9
Leve Feyenoord 1! Posts: 4,490 Group: Elite Member Member #9,685 Joined: June 30, 2013 Gender Female Country Netherlands Favourite Anime NJPW What Browser do you use? Chrome Favourite Manga Reading is for nerds, yo!	I don't see Pui Pui above Freeza. We know pretty much nohing about him, comparing him to Kaioshin is not gonna work, Kaioshin's power has always been debated. All we know is Pui Pui was recruited by Babidi because he's among the strongest in the universe, then again Babidi also recruited little grunts that are probably as strong as Freeza soldiers, so Pui Pui is strong on a universal scale but not strong enough to beat Freeza I think. So i have saiyans winning. Also, Buu Arc Base Vegeta molested Pui Pui with barely using any power. I'd like to think he'd have a little more trouble with the android arc super saiyans
	Ask GinyuTokusentai


+ Majin Vegeta	Mar 15 2015, 10:38 AM Post #10
The resident GT fan! Posts: 8,522 Group: Elite Member Member #9,206 Joined: March 17, 2013 Gender Male Country Greece Favourite Anime DragonBall/Z/GT, Code Geass,Attack on Titan, Death Note, Naruto What Browser do you use? Safari Favourite Manga DragonBall/Z, Naruto, Death Note, Yugioh!	GinyuTokusentai Mar 15 2015, 08:35 AM I don't see Pui Pui above Freeza. We know pretty much nohing about him, comparing him to Kaioshin is not gonna work, Kaioshin's power has always been debated. That's not true, we have a direct statement about Kaioshin been capable of oneshoting Frieza, so we do have a starting point.
	"Its only when we're pushed to our limits that we can truly shine!" Majin Vegeta


lazerbem	Mar 15 2015, 01:29 PM Post #11
Posts: 10,662 Group: Forum Moderator Member #10,435 Joined: November 1, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Asura's Wrath(it counts) What Browser do you use? Google Chrome	Pocus I see being around the realm of Android 17. He's going to wreck this fight easily. Kaioshin wasn't really terrified of Pocus like with Yakon, but Kaioshin was worried and did not want them to go in cocky and offguard.
	Crazy cat cults in the woods


* Ketchup Revenge	Mar 15 2015, 03:04 PM Post #12
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!" Posts: 6,083 Group: Retired Forum Moderator Member #9,012 Joined: February 9, 2013 Gender Not Specified Country Chile Favourite Anime FMA: Brotherhood, Dragon Ball, Samurai Champloo, Soul Eater, Assassination Classroom What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Fullmetal Alchemist, Assassination Classroom, Deadman Wonderland	Orochimaru Mar 15 2015, 10:38 AM GinyuTokusentai Mar 15 2015, 08:35 AM I don't see Pui Pui above Freeza. We know pretty much nohing about him, comparing him to Kaioshin is not gonna work, Kaioshin's power has always been debated. That's not true, we have a direct statement about Kaioshin been capable of oneshoting Frieza, so we do have a starting point. It seems likely to me that the only context that Kaioshin had was Freeza's first form. Given how out-of-touch he was with what happens in the Universe, it doesn't seem likely to me that he knew about Freeza's higher forms at all. Even people who were close to Freeza and interacted with him on a daily basis didn't even know about them. At a minimum, Kaioshin and Pocus would only have to be as strong as second form Freeza to floor what both of them would've preceived as Freeza at his max. Given all the evidence, neither of them even need to be at Freeza Arc Base Goku's level for the story to play out exactly as it did.
	The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him.


+ Six Trails	Mar 15 2015, 03:08 PM Post #13
Posts: 1,570 Group: Elite Member Member #11,764 Joined: October 23, 2014 Gender Not Specified Country United States	Quote: It seems likely to me that the only context that Kaioshin had was Freeza's first form. Given how out-of-touch he was with what happens in the Universe, it doesn't seem likely to me that he knew about Freeza's higher forms at all. Even people who were close to Freeza and interacted with him on a daily basis didn't even know about them. That does makes sense, but I don't think that Toriyama would mislead us like that. Also, didn't Kaio-sama know how strong 100% Freeza was?



FutureProtagonist	Mar 15 2015, 03:13 PM Post #14
Quwrof Wrlccywrlir Posts: 2,545 Group: Member Member #11,890 Joined: December 5, 2014 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime FMA: Brotherhood What Browser do you use? Waterfox Favourite Manga Soul Eater	Ketchup Revenge Mar 15 2015, 03:04 PM Orochimaru Mar 15 2015, 10:38 AM GinyuTokusentai Mar 15 2015, 08:35 AM I don't see Pui Pui above Freeza. We know pretty much nohing about him, comparing him to Kaioshin is not gonna work, Kaioshin's power has always been debated. That's not true, we have a direct statement about Kaioshin been capable of oneshoting Frieza, so we do have a starting point. It seems likely to me that the only context that Kaioshin had was Freeza's first form. Given how out-of-touch he was with what happens in the Universe, it doesn't seem likely to me that he knew about Freeza's higher forms at all. Even people who were close to Freeza and interacted with him on a daily basis didn't even know about them. At a minimum, Kaioshin and Pocus would only have to be as strong as second form Freeza to floor what both of them would've preceived as Freeza at his max. Given all the evidence, neither of them even need to be at Freeza Arc Base Goku's level for the story to play out exactly as it did. Kaioshin knows about Super Saiyan, so he should also know about Freeza's full power; besides, it's clear which form Goku, Vegeta and we, the audience would have in mind.
	I love building PCs. If you have any questions about it feel free to ask. I can help you with almost any kind of PC you'd want to build. Join DBZeta


* Ketchup Revenge	Mar 15 2015, 03:16 PM Post #15
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!" Posts: 6,083 Group: Retired Forum Moderator Member #9,012 Joined: February 9, 2013 Gender Not Specified Country Chile Favourite Anime FMA: Brotherhood, Dragon Ball, Samurai Champloo, Soul Eater, Assassination Classroom What Browser do you use? Firefox Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Fullmetal Alchemist, Assassination Classroom, Deadman Wonderland	SSJ Vegetto Mar 15 2015, 03:08 PM Quote: It seems likely to me that the only context that Kaioshin had was Freeza's first form. Given how out-of-touch he was with what happens in the Universe, it doesn't seem likely to me that he knew about Freeza's higher forms at all. Even people who were close to Freeza and interacted with him on a daily basis didn't even know about them. That does makes sense, but I don't think that Toriyama would mislead us like that. Also, didn't Kaio-sama know how strong 100% Freeza was? I don't recall him ever saying that he knew, but given the context that he's completely out-of-touch, it doesn't make sense for him to know at all. He didn't even know about Cell existing, and Cell was as strong as Dabura, of whom he was crapping his pants over. Quote: Kaioshin knows about Super Saiyan, so he should also know about Freeza's full power; besides, it's clear which form Goku, Vegeta and we, the audience would have in mind. All he would have to know is that the Super Saiyans are stronger than first form Freeza. Not to mention that the Super Saiyan was known a thousand years prior, so his knowledge doesn't need to apply to the Super Saiyans that we know. Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Mar 15 2015, 03:18 PM.
	The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him.


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